Conference thread

SBU has something that none of those schools have, commitment. We recognize what a strong basketball program means for the school and are committed to keeping it competitive. Our schools is the size of MEAC schools and yet here we are. Those peer schools in the A10 suck for a reason year after year.
 
Don't look now, but Utah State is 17-2 after getting a new head coach and turning over their entire roster.

Is Schmidt making things too complicated for the team? How does one coach get the benefit of the doubt and rarely questioned, while others don't? Schmidt is now 10-14 in conference play in the "portal era."

Bona lost a combined 16 conference games from 2019-2022.
 
Duq is always a rock fight team but that doesnt excuse how poorly we played. Flowers, Luc and Banks combined for 2-21 from 2 and 0-6 from 3 and only pitched in 3 assits. That made me wonder how we won 14 games last year with them being our main guards/wings. The only Bonnie to have a game as bad as Luc and Banks had was Holmes in the Dr. D game and then again in the Va Tech game. The Va Tech game having an atroucious offensive performance shouldnt be surprising since that is the last game we looked completely non-competitive and inept for 35 minutes.

The fact Duq turned into a 4 point game and we had a posession to tie the game late is absolutely amazing. It says alot to how bad Duq is.
 
3rd, one could even argue that those 16 conference losses was about 6 or 8 more than there should have been. A staple of Schmidt teams was finishing strong. That suggests cohesion, teaching, learning, improvement. '22 was a season regressed for a very good team. Last year the floor fell out from under team that appeared to finally click. This year is a game or two away from complete disaster if not there already.

Whether they're portal players or not you expect a Schmidt team to finish. This team is full of frontrunners and doesn't seem to handle adversity. When they got up on inferior squads they pummeled them. If it's close the mistakes come out and more often than not the result is an L. A message is being lost somewhere.
 
Schmidt and staff definitely deserve to be held accountable. The bottom has fallen out and its a mystery why. I dont know what to think. Adams Woods was "sick" last night. Supposedly. But dressed. Its time for a long look in the mirror by everyone in the program. This is either rock bottom (I cant see how it gets worse than this) or the new reality. Time will tell.

If they played a D+ game last night, they win. Thats how bad it was. I see better basketball in my Class D games. I dont know what was worse, the shooting or the terrible turnovers? Its probably a good thing that all the guards are gone after this year but I dont know if we will even bring in the right players anymore.

One thing that is obvious is that we dont see improvement from our younger players anymore. Shoon peaked after his soph year. Welch and Lofton you could say got better. Assa is lost. Evans has improved a little but hes not a threat on offense at all. Venning got in shape but hes the same as last year. He cant handle a double team nor can he score from his left. Where are the Dion Wright's and LaDarien Griffin's? Do they even exist anymore? Was Coach Moore way more important that we realized? So many questions and no answers.
 
Almost coming back was insult to injury. The intensity was finally ramped up 35 minutes into the game down 16. All that did for me, was make me annoyed that they obviously didn’t give a shit for most of the game.

I disagree 03 that this cant get worse- it can get a lot worse. If they play in the realm of how they’ve played 3 out of the last 4, the next 3 opponents will run us out of the gym. A 5 game losing streak following a few blowouts to cap a 2-7 start to the first half of A10 play? That will be rock bottom, and from there, we could full on implode.

I’m not saying I think that will happen- I truly don’t have any idea what will. I think last night would have surprised even the most staunch pessimist. But it certainly wouldn’t surprise me at this point if it does.
 
Thats fair. To me, last night was the breaking point. Anything that happens after this is just piling on. Dayton will beat us by 25, I am already resigned to that. The writing has been on the wall since the Richmond game but I had faith they would figure it out. Now, I dont think so. Last night infuriated me as well with the "oh we give a shit now after 35 min of fucking up". I had the game off for awhile because I had things going on and I texted my friends saying if they dont give a fuck about the game why should I?

Im glad my plans changed and I cant go Friday. Was planning to all season but why on Earth would I drive 2 hours and then get home by 12:30-1AM for this team? Turns out other things decided for me anyway. FUCK. Im so mad at this team.
 
Two things give me hope for Friday and that is our guys are tired of hearing about how talented Joes is and the Billy Lange factor
 
I dont think our guys give a fuck. Although I thought Rhode Island was going to be the season funeral and they came out and kicked the shit out of them.
 
Bona03 said:
Schmidt and staff definitely deserve to be held accountable. The bottom has fallen out and its a mystery why. I dont know what to think. Adams Woods was "sick" last night. Supposedly. But dressed. Its time for a long look in the mirror by everyone in the program. This is either rock bottom (I cant see how it gets worse than this) or the new reality. Time will tell.

If they played a D+ game last night, they win. Thats how bad it was. I see better basketball in my Class D games. I dont know what was worse, the shooting or the terrible turnovers? Its probably a good thing that all the guards are gone after this year but I dont know if we will even bring in the right players anymore.

One thing that is obvious is that we dont see improvement from our younger players anymore. Shoon peaked after his soph year. Welch and Lofton you could say got better. Assa is lost. Evans has improved a little but hes not a threat on offense at all. Venning got in shape but hes the same as last year. He cant handle a double team nor can he score from his left. Where are the Dion Wright's and LaDarien Griffin's? Do they even exist anymore? Was Coach Moore way more important that we realized? So many questions and no answers.
Click to expand...

Moore is a damn good coach. I do think his loss is felt.
 
Jive36 said:
Two things give me hope for Friday and that is our guys are tired of hearing about how talented Joes is and the Billy Lange factor
Click to expand...
I don’t get the constant Lange hate.

SJU wasn’t exactly 2004 Joe’s when he took over and he lost his entire roster. They’ve improved slowly with each year and continually win more games than the year prior. In addition to that, Lange recruits very well and has the NBA pedigree & style that is appealing to recruits.

People really forget how mediocre Schmidt was for the first seven years of his career. Let me remind you 106-110 overall with a 46-66 mark in conference play. If Temple doesn’t lose in the quarters of the 2012 A10 Tourney, we probably don’t make the dance and that changes the whole trajectory of the program.

No one wants to admit it, but a lot of coaches luck is contingent upon luck. Schmidt got it early on and maybe Lange will, too.
 
3rdShayCripSet said:
I don’t get the constant Lange hate.

SJU wasn’t exactly 2004 Joe’s when he took over and he lost his entire roster. They’ve improved slowly with each year and continually win more games than the year prior. In addition to that, Lange recruits very well and has the NBA pedigree & style that is appealing to recruits.

People really forget how mediocre Schmidt was for the first seven years of his career. Let me remind you 106-110 overall with a 46-66 mark in conference play. If Temple doesn’t lose in the quarters of the 2012 A10 Tourney, we probably don’t make the dance and that changes the whole trajectory of the program.

No one wants to admit it, but a lot of coaches luck is contingent upon luck. Schmidt got it early on and maybe Lange will, too.
Click to expand...

Lange is trash
 
3rdShayCripSet said:
I don’t get the constant Lange hate.

SJU wasn’t exactly 2004 Joe’s when he took over and he lost his entire roster. They’ve improved slowly with each year and continually win more games than the year prior. In addition to that, Lange recruits very well and has the NBA pedigree & style that is appealing to recruits.

People really forget how mediocre Schmidt was for the first seven years of his career. Let me remind you 106-110 overall with a 46-66 mark in conference play. If Temple doesn’t lose in the quarters of the 2012 A10 Tourney, we probably don’t make the dance and that changes the whole trajectory of the program.

No one wants to admit it, but a lot of coaches luck is contingent upon luck. Schmidt got it early on and maybe Lange will, too.
Click to expand...
True that Lange didnt take over the 04 Hawks but he took over a program that had good players in it and never did anything but underachieve. He had a couple All A10 guards among them. They truly have never lived up to expectations.

As far as a Schmidt comparison, Schmidt took over basically the worst program in D1. Those mid 00 teams were awful with a capital A. I compared last nights performance to them. Maybe Schmidt did catch some luck but he also built and sustained a good program over the years. If UMass was able to beat Temple why couldnt we in 2012? We finished the year red hot outside of a loss at La Salle (we never fucking win there). I think SJU has seen enough from Lange to move on after this year if they dont make a run.
 
Schmidt inheritted KP 297 and took them to the tournament in 5 years getting to KP 60. Or look at record since you want to point to it. Year 1 Schmidt was 8-22 and after one full recruiting period and offseason got to .500 and has be above or within a game of .500 ever since.

Lange took over KP 189 and has them at KP 86 in his 5th year. Lange year 1 was 6-26 and has yet to get to mount .500. He also has way more talent than Schmidt did at the time. Like you said he plays recruits well but cant capitalize on the talent. If what you want from your program is to have a ton of fringe NBA guys and be .500 at best Lange is a good option.

Kenpom isn't the end all be all. The only reason Joes being down bad isnt a bigger deal in Philly is because Temple chased football money and is down way worse.
 
This is Lange’s first year of having legitimate, top of the shelf A10 talent. While unlikely, they still have a small chance at an at large. They could easily win 20+ games this year and still return virtually their entire roster next year. They are set up to be a solid program for the next couple of years. They are currently 76th in NET with two strong wins and nearly beat an elite Kentucky club on the road.

Lange has had ONE NBA guy on his roster in five years just like Schmidt’s first five years at the helm. How hasn’t Lange lived up to expectations? No one has thought much of them for the past few years. It’s not like he’s taking Dayton’s talent and turning out 12th place finishes. This year they were picked 5th preseason, in 2023 they were picked 13th, in 2022 they were picked 10th.

If SJU ends up winning 17 or 18 games, then sure, they might move on but I bet they keep Lange if they can bring back their core for one more year. While SJU was in a better position than Schmidt, Martelli finished his last three years a combined 41-55 and 20-32 in conference play. He only made 2 NCAAs in his last 11 years on Hawk Hill.
 
This is not Lange's first year with top talent. Hes had Jordan Hall, who went to the NBA, Taylor Funk for 2-3 years, Ryan Daly, when he got there. Look at this 21-22 team. They were 11-19
1706128151311.png

Then the year before, an even better group went 5-15
1706128268164.png

Now Im not saying these were spectacular teams but they were not as good as they should have been. Even this years team has fallen off a cliff since their decent start. They have no shot at an at large unless they win out.
 
Yes, this is his first year with TOP A10 talent as indicated by A10 preseason polls.

Having a couple of solid freshman and sophomore doesn’t make your roster elite. The year you're referencing, they were picked 12th preseason, so clearly people in the A10 knew they didn’t have a ton of depth or talent aside of a few players.

The whole point of this pointless argument is the narrative. Schmidt is believed to be one of the BEST coaches in the A10 and he struggled to get his footing and needed some luck to make the NCAAs in year FIVE. People hate Lange and think he is among the worst in the A10, yet he’s shown improvements in record each year and has his best team in year five. A team that is still pretty young and in the mix for the NCAAs.

That’s the point. Joe’s was trending down before he got there. He did not take over an elite program. His progress has been slow, but he’s made it.
 
His system is whack. Too reliant on the 3 on offense and the defense is weird and crappy

We have our own problems though right now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top