The Bonnies: 2022-2023 Season Thread

[Community Bank 3Pt Tee]

What's up misfits? Inspired by Unfurled's scrimmage recap, it dawned on me the season tips off in 3 weeks from today, which is just fucking wild. A bit different from last year's 8 week countdown that was running in my head once we hit labor day.

I'm eager for this season to see what we've got, but excited isn't a word I'm ready to use just yet because as much as I can (and will) speculate, I have no clue what to expect.

Long post, but here's basically a summary of all of the thoughts that have been bouncing around my head the last several months about this year's team.

• I found it interesting that Flowers is not projected to start by Unfurled, not only as a captain but also as a guy with his pedigree at the D1 level . It would be tough to start Luc/Flowers/Banks in terms of height, but I am curious if we will see small combinations of those 3 (or Rumpel when he's back), or some combos without a 'true point', which would be a departure from Schmidt's style. The leadership qualities, experience, and scoring abilities demonstrated at the D1 level all indicate there would be a need for Flowers and Banks to see the floor together a good amount. Having any 3 of our 4 guards out there together certainly wouldn't give us any height advantages, but used in the right situation, could present mismatch problems, IF the guys show an ability to create and defend against mismatches for their part.

• A little surprised as well given his hype to see Farrell not projected to start, but Evans in his place. Also, surprised to see Evans pegged for the 3, I thought I had heard/read he was more of a 4.

• I'm excited about the stretch potential that the many possible combinations of Farrrel, Evans, JNT, Mellouk, Hill offer. Farrell and JNT were technically both signed as guards. The size and potential skill sets of that collection of guys opens up a fantasy factory of different combinations which could create mismatches for teams:
  • Seeing Hill/Meloulk able to slide to the 5 ala Griffin, etc opens up a host of 3-4 guard sets that could stretch the floor
  • If Farrell can slide into a 2 role and JNT/Evans can in slide into a 3, that opens a funhouse of large guard combinations that are difficult for a lot of A10 teams to match with (see: Dayton for the last decade)- such a lineup is probably a pipe dream in the short term, but hopefully is realistic in its potential

• Yeah, we played 5 guys the last 2 years, but I'm firmly in the bare cupboard camp, rather than the refusal to rotate camp. Yes, Holmes had a bad stretch. Yes Quadry should have played more than 2 MPG. But if he or Coulibaly were consistently playing above 10 minutes per game, we wouldnt have been in a good situation. I think we can expect to revert to our pre 2019 ways and see a rotation. Operating under the assumption of Unfurled's depth chart:
  • Starters 1-4 with Ferrell/Flowers getting significant time off the bench. Amongst those 6, 1-2 of them will be subject to anyone's best guess night to night how much they'll play. A Schmidt classic, expect to see some instances of a 15 point night followed by 2 mins PT the next game for a couple of these unlucky bastards (Nelson Kaptuo is sighing somewhere)
  • Venning/Amadasun will rotate. Hopefully we're talking about a far better version of the Ayeni/Ikpeze rotations of yesteryear.
  • That makes 8 I expect one more guy to be a cameo guy. Maybe not every game, but most games making at least an appearance, usually brief, but occasionally extended. My guess is JNT
  • Rumpels return, I can't predict. Best guess is bullet number one adds 7th guy, briefly, but eventually one unlucky soul out of those 7 recedes into the bench and becomes cameo guy #2. No guess on which one.
  • That leaves 2 guys who'll pretty much never get in. Martinez and Melouk are my guess.

• 10th ranking seems fair as of today, because of the mystery. Everyone wants to compare to 2019 it seems, and that's fine. As long as two key differences are remembered. The first, we had Stockard and Griffin. Banks and Flowers are vets too, but not at the A10 level. Second, that 2019 A10 was, by far, the most atrocious A10 of the last 15 years. This year's league should be solid. There should be less of a steep dropoff after the top 6 as the last couple of years, and the ceiling at the top should exceed where last year's ceiling at the top was.
  • Dayton could be 2020 good.
  • St Louis will be good too. I'd imagine their fans have named them defacto National Champions by now.
  • I'm not sold on VCU being anything more than they were last year, Vince Williams is a huge hole to plug. Outside of Bones Hyland, horrible shooting has been the MO under Rhoades. That said, they should still be in the top 4 and NIT mix at worst.
  • Loyola figures to be in the mix for the top of the league and a bid
  • This is where it gets interesting. The rest of the teams preseaon ranked ahead of us are also shrouded in mystery. To me the order of 5-10 is anyone's best guess, and all 6 teams in that mix, us included could finish anywhere in that range.
    • Davidson you know will compete, but there are big questions to answer between coaching and lost players
    • Richmond is hyped because of Burton (and he is good), but losses of Gillyard and Golden are enormous. And, in spite of a nice 5 game winning streak, Mooney is still, Mooney.
    • GMU has reason for optimism. Their biggest drawback is a complete lack of execution against expectations during their entire A10 tenure
    • UMass and Rhode Island are really in a similar boat to us. Their big splash hires and the fact they brought back a few more guys than us is likely why they edge us.

I think we'll be in the middle of the pack, around 7th, with some positive results and momentum to build off into the following year- hopefully no exodus of guys who saw time.

 

[3rdShayCripSet]

What's up misfits? Inspired by Unfurled's scrimmage recap, it dawned on me the season tips off in 3 weeks from today, which is just fucking wild. A bit different from last year's 8 week countdown that was running in my head once we hit labor day.

I'm eager for this season to see what we've got, but excited isn't a word I'm ready to use just yet because as much as I can (and will) speculate, I have no clue what to expect.

Long post, but here's basically a summary of all of the thoughts that have been bouncing around my head the last several months about this year's team.

• I found it interesting that Flowers is not projected to start by Unfurled, not only as a captain but also as a guy with his pedigree at the D1 level . It would be tough to start Luc/Flowers/Banks in terms of height, but I am curious if we will see small combinations of those 3 (or Rumpel when he's back), or some combos without a 'true point', which would be a departure from Schmidt's style. The leadership qualities, experience, and scoring abilities demonstrated at the D1 level all indicate there would be a need for Flowers and Banks to see the floor together a good amount. Having any 3 of our 4 guards out there together certainly wouldn't give us any height advantages, but used in the right situation, could present mismatch problems, IF the guys show an ability to create and defend against mismatches for their part.

• A little surprised as well given his hype to see Farrell not projected to start, but Evans in his place. Also, surprised to see Evans pegged for the 3, I thought I had heard/read he was more of a 4.

• I'm excited about the stretch potential that the many possible combinations of Farrrel, Evans, JNT, Mellouk, Hill offer. Farrell and JNT were technically both signed as guards. The size and potential skill sets of that collection of guys opens up a fantasy factory of different combinations which could create mismatches for teams:
  • Seeing Hill/Meloulk able to slide to the 5 ala Griffin, etc opens up a host of 3-4 guard sets that could stretch the floor
  • If Farrell can slide into a 2 role and JNT/Evans can in slide into a 3, that opens a funhouse of large guard combinations that are difficult for a lot of A10 teams to match with (see: Dayton for the last decade)- such a lineup is probably a pipe dream in the short term, but hopefully is realistic in its potential

• Yeah, we played 5 guys the last 2 years, but I'm firmly in the bare cupboard camp, rather than the refusal to rotate camp. Yes, Holmes had a bad stretch. Yes Quadry should have played more than 2 MPG. But if he or Coulibaly were consistently playing above 10 minutes per game, we wouldnt have been in a good situation. I think we can expect to revert to our pre 2019 ways and see a rotation. Operating under the assumption of Unfurled's depth chart:
  • Starters 1-4 with Ferrell/Flowers getting significant time off the bench. Amongst those 6, 1-2 of them will be subject to anyone's best guess night to night how much they'll play. A Schmidt classic, expect to see some instances of a 15 point night followed by 2 mins PT the next game for a couple of these unlucky bastards (Nelson Kaptuo is sighing somewhere)
  • Venning/Amadasun will rotate. Hopefully we're talking about a far better version of the Ayeni/Ikpeze rotations of yesteryear.
  • That makes 8 I expect one more guy to be a cameo guy. Maybe not every game, but most games making at least an appearance, usually brief, but occasionally extended. My guess is JNT
  • Rumpels return, I can't predict. Best guess is bullet number one adds 7th guy, briefly, but eventually one unlucky soul out of those 7 recedes into the bench and becomes cameo guy #2. No guess on which one.
  • That leaves 2 guys who'll pretty much never get in. Martinez and Melouk are my guess.

• 10th ranking seems fair as of today, because of the mystery. Everyone wants to compare to 2019 it seems, and that's fine. As long as two key differences are remembered. The first, we had Stockard and Griffin. Banks and Flowers are vets too, but not at the A10 level. Second, that 2019 A10 was, by far, the most atrocious A10 of the last 15 years. This year's league should be solid. There should be less of a steep dropoff after the top 6 as the last couple of years, and the ceiling at the top should exceed where last year's ceiling at the top was.
  • Dayton could be 2020 good.
  • St Louis will be good too. I'd imagine their fans have named them defacto National Champions by now.
  • I'm not sold on VCU being anything more than they were last year, Vince Williams is a huge hole to plug. Outside of Bones Hyland, horrible shooting has been the MO under Rhoades. That said, they should still be in the top 4 and NIT mix at worst.
  • Loyola figures to be in the mix for the top of the league and a bid
  • This is where it gets interesting. The rest of the teams preseaon ranked ahead of us are also shrouded in mystery. To me the order of 5-10 is anyone's best guess, and all 6 teams in that mix, us included could finish anywhere in that range.
    • Davidson you know will compete, but there are big questions to answer between coaching and lost players
    • Richmond is hyped because of Burton (and he is good), but losses of Gillyard and Golden are enormous. And, in spite of a nice 5 game winning streak, Mooney is still, Mooney.
    • GMU has reason for optimism. Their biggest drawback is a complete lack of execution against expectations during their entire A10 tenure
    • UMass and Rhode Island are really in a similar boat to us. Their big splash hires and the fact they brought back a few more guys than us is likely why they edge us.

I think we'll be in the middle of the pack, around 7th, with some positive results and momentum to build off into the following year- hopefully no exodus of guys who saw time.

Why is everyone so high on Loyola and Davidson? Didn’t both lose major pieces and return only one or two starters?

I know they’re new around here, but those LUC fans are delusional. They think their time in the A10 will be short lived as they will be on their way to the Big East within the decade.

 

[Community Bank 3Pt Tee]

I'm not sure how high the consensus is on Davidson. The return of Loyer and their style of play warrants belief that they will compete, win some games and be far from a pushover. Since joining the league, even the lowest finishing Davidson teams have shown an ability to challenge just about anyone on the right night. From what I've seen, it's that program foundation that gives them the credit of a competitive baseline.

People are high on Loyola based on the combination of who they didn't lose, and who they brought in, from what I understand. It's entirely fair to question if their pedigree and coaching is really there, or if it's just riding the coattails of Moser and is actually a paper tiger.

 

[Bonniesmaga2020]

Curious to hear, for those that have seen any of summer scrimmages or official activities, is Flowers not playing well? Passed by some of the other depth? Someone maybe better served to give us instant offense off the bench?

 

[brownindians85]

Davidson has done well enough, and until the A10 proves otherwise, they've earned preseason notice. Loyola? Ehh. I wouldn't be surprised to see a GMU-like trajectory.

The Bonnies should finish top half. In the transfer circus era coaching is going to become more important as you're putting together new pieces every season. Of all the conference teams, maybe UD and SLU can insulate themselves from that a little. Despite minor flaws and tendencies, I'd pit Schmidt favorably against every other coach in the conference, now that Bob McKillop is retired. That could be enough to get into that top-6 range by season's end.

 

[Bona03]

Im excited just to see what we have. I was also surprised to hear Flowers was not in Unfurled's projected 5 but there is still alot of time before the season ends. The Alfred scrimmage should show us who the projected lineup really is. I cant see Schmidt holding anyone out of that game given the lack of experience.

I agree that Davidson has earned benefit of the doubt. Its not like McKillop's kid doesnt know what hes doing. He has been there quite a while right? I am higher on Loyola, to me they are a fringe NCAA team. They had a good recruiting class and still a couple good returnees. 4-5 seems fair for them. 6-10 is anyones guess. I could see us anywhere in that range but I tend to think Schmidt can get something out of these guys and get a decent seed. Its not like we are dealing with all freshmen.

 

[3rdShayCripSet]

I'm not sure how high the consensus is on Davidson. The return of Loyer and their style of play warrants belief that they will compete, win some games and be far from a pushover. Since joining the league, even the lowest finishing Davidson teams have shown an ability to challenge just about anyone on the right night. From what I've seen, it's that program foundation that gives them the credit of a competitive baseline.

People are high on Loyola based on the combination of who they didn't lose, and who they brought in, from what I understand. It's entirely fair to question if their pedigree and coaching is really there, or if it's just riding the coattails of Moser and is actually a paper tiger.

Isn’t that the same thing for Davidson? They’ve had virtually no success outside of Bob Mc who is now retired.

I assume their new HC, who is Bob’s son, is cut from the same cloth but who knows if he’s going to be an elite coach

 

[Community Bank 3Pt Tee]

Yeah that's why I noted their coaching as a question. Again, I'm not sure what you're defining as people being high on Davidson. Joel Welser's top 144 has them at 91 and Kenpom at 105. Is that really everyone being high on them?

We're talking about two different things here with Loyola and Davidson. Loyola is being touted as a bubble team, this year. Valentine won last year with Moser's guys. The question mark is if that short burst of momentum can be carried on, as he enters his first year bringing in a bunch of his own guys to fill the gaps.

Davidson is being given the benefit of the doubt of remaining competitive, and an annual fringe top 100 team. This based off a 40 year establishment of Davidson basketball, its offensive scheme, and recruiting philosophy as an institution.

Neither is certain, but one has more earned benefit of the doubt, IMO.

 

[3rdShayCripSet]

Yeah that's why I noted their coaching as a question. Again, I'm not sure what you're defining as people being high on Davidson. Joel Welser's top 144 has them at 91 and Kenpom at 105. Is that really everyone being high on them?

We're talking about two different things here with Loyola and Davidson. Loyola is being touted as a bubble team, this year. Valentine won last year with Moser's guys. The question mark is if that short burst of momentum can be carried on, as he enters his first year bringing in a bunch of his own guys to fill the gaps.

Davidson is being given the benefit of the doubt of remaining competitive, and an annual fringe top 100 team. This based off a 40 year establishment of Davidson basketball, its offensive scheme, and recruiting philosophy as an institution.

Neither is certain, but one has more earned benefit of the doubt, IMO.

Regarding Loyola, they return two starters that averaged plus 10 PPG and then two other role players.

They did bring in a quality D2 player, Grant Golden’s brother from Butler and a decent Lehigh transfer.

Maybe the A10 is not that deep, but them to be picked 4th seems a bit high. Perhaps I’m overvaluing both the A10s rigor and the depth of the conference.

The pundits I’m talking about are mostly A10 folks and Davidson did check in at 6th… they return TWO! Guys that averaged over 8 PPG and added only one decent transfer ( a guy from UB) who scored around 7 or 8 ppg.

I just don’t see how that merits a top half prediction. Throw in the only coach they’ve really ever known is gone, and it seems like a very generous selection with no merit behind it.

Seems like a lot of love for a pretty young team, IMO.

 

[Community Bank 3Pt Tee]

I hear you, all legitimate at face value, but similar questions surround about 80% of the conference. This was my initial point in the start of the thread, you could rank anyone in the 5-10 range in any order and make the argument for it. At a certain point you need to just fill in the rankings I suppose. Davidson's plug n' play, machine like philosophy wins you favor in that kind of setting.

To me, GMU being 5th in the coaches poll is the egregious ranking that I can't wrap my head around.

Richmond I'm also struggling with. Not as much with the 7th coaches poll ranking, but for sure with some of the national pieces I've seen placing them 5th and top 75ish. Burton plus 3 double digit scoring transfers make enough sense on paper, I guess, but I just don't buy it. That was a nice feel-good 5 game win streak, but back to back years of overwhelming disappointment and underachievement wasn't just bad luck.

 

[3rdShayCripSet]

I’ve done my deep dive on the conference, and man, this conference 9-15 is bad. After further review, I think LUC and Davidson are pretty close to where they should end up.

Mason has some strong pieces returning including, so them being 6-8 seems about right.

I’m so tempted to put SLU and 1 with Perkins returning and Mizzou transfer Javon Pickett coming in, but Dayton was so incredibly good after their awful November last year.

Here’s my breakdown of the conference:

1.) SLU
2.) Dayton
3.) Loyola
4.) Richmond
5.) VCU
6.) Mason
7.) Davidson
8.) SBU
9.) UMass
10.) La Salle
11.) GW
12.) Fordham
13.) Rhode Island
14.) Duquesne
15.) Saint Joe’s

 

[Bonafanatic]

Loving this thread. Nice to actually talk about hoops. Hard to believe we're just 15 days away from watching real basketball. I kind of let my mind take a vacation from bona hoops this summer/fall but I am gearing up and am excited to see what the staff does with this group of guys and already have a handful of games marked on my calendar I will be watching in person.

Knowing Schmidt teams, there is almost certainly going to be 2+ guys who level up this year, put the team on their back and get us some big wins down the stretch in conference play -- names we will be repeating (and likely misspelling on the other board) decades later. What's wild is, I don't have a single guess as to who those guys are going to be.

 

[Community Bank 3Pt Tee]

Random thoughts after attending the game the other night:

-In a partial capacity crowd like the other night, it was entertaining to hear Schmidt tell multiple guys that their quick trigger 3's were horrible shots

-What in the fuck is that weird grandstand, for lack of a better term, underneath the HoF room basket? I'd rather not even know how much it cost.

-The banners of other A10 teams has been replaced with a single horizontal banner, running along the back wall below the HoF windows, with team logos. I like the idea, but the execution (banner size) leaves a lot to be desired.

-Much to the dismay of Bonafide, the shit house in the RC across the hall from the post office remains unfixed and decrepit.

 

[Bona03]

Random thoughts after attending the game the other night:

-In a partial capacity crowd like the other night, it was entertaining to hear Schmidt tell multiple guys that their quick trigger 3's were horrible shots

-What in the fuck is that weird grandstand, for lack of a better term, underneath the HoF room basket? I'd rather not even know how much it cost.

-The banners of other A10 teams has been replaced with a single horizontal banner, running along the back wall below the HoF windows, with team logos. I like the idea, but the execution (banner size) leaves a lot to be desired.

-Much to the dismay of Bonafide, the shit house in the RC across the hall from the post office remains unfixed and decrepit.

The jury box is what we were calling it. I heard that the arena was not up to code for handicap accessibility so that area was done rather quickly to throw something together to meet the standards.

 

[Bonafanatic]

The jury box is what we were calling it. I heard that the arena was not up to code for handicap accessibility so that area was done rather quickly to throw something together to meet the standards.

Yeah, it says "ADA" on the seat map.....

Speaking of the seat map.... we might get a sellout for the bowling green game. Only 269 seats remain.

 

[Bill Russell]

Random thoughts after attending the game the other night:

-In a partial capacity crowd like the other night, it was entertaining to hear Schmidt tell multiple guys that their quick trigger 3's were horrible shots

-What in the fuck is that weird grandstand, for lack of a better term, underneath the HoF room basket? I'd rather not even know how much it cost.

-The banners of other A10 teams has been replaced with a single horizontal banner, running along the back wall below the HoF windows, with team logos. I like the idea, but the execution (banner size) leaves a lot to be desired.

-Much to the dismay of Bonafide, the shit house in the RC across the hall from the post office remains unfixed and decrepit.

The jury box is a disgrace, and it looks extremely thrown together. Schmidt and the staff are horrified by it, I hear. Not a good look for Seth Johnson or anyone else involved with the project.

The A10 logos are even worse. The entire point of displaying conference mates in your arena is to showcase your association with those institutions. It isn’t just about Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis hoops; it’s about Fordham, George Washington, Davidson, and Richmond academics, too. It’s hugely important for visitors—prospective athletes and regular students—to see this.

With the updates, about 10% of visitors will even notice the logos that replaced the banners. Of those people, maybe 1% would recognize the sports logos of each institution. The flag for ESPN is bigger than anything indicating our membership in a very good league like the A10. It’s really, really foolish.

Also, our postseason banner situation is a JOKE. Waaaaay too much going on up in the rafters. Each NCAA trip should have its own banner. The NIT title should have its own, too. The rest of the NIT bids should be consolidated onto 2-3 uniformly-sized banners. What could be more small time than having First Round NIT banners on seemingly equal footing with NCAA bids? Shit! The A10 title banners are tiny and dwarfed by those same early NIT exits.

Don’t get me started on the retired jerseys, either. The only players up there should be Bob Lanier and Tom Stith—both of whom were 1st Team All-Americans, played on deep NCAA Tournament teams, and top NBA draft picks. The rest deserve recognition in some type of “Ring of Honor” or display, but retired numbers should be sacred.

GET WITH IT, MARKETING DEPARTMENT!

 

[brownindians85]

Can you elaborate more? I'd like to know how you feel about this situation.

 

[Bonafanatic]

Don’t get me started on the retired jerseys, either. The only players up there should be Bob Lanier and Tom Stith—both of whom were 1st Team All-Americans, played on deep NCAA Tournament teams, and top NBA draft picks. The rest deserve recognition in some type of “Ring of Honor” or display, but retired numbers should be sacred.

Agree with most of this screed. I don't know the deal with the jury box but if it was some kind of last minute move by the school to stay legal with local/federal laws, I'll withhold judgment until I know more. I don't like it but I also don't want the school to be fined.

The retired jerseys, I completely agree with. MAYBE add Nicholson to Stith and Lanier simply because he, along with Schmidt, get credit for the team and school's rebirth from scandal. But I also thought at the time they retired his jersey that it was maybe a stretch for a guy who played one NCAA game and had a lucrative but ultimately forgettable NBA career.

Speaking of which, on the broadcast, Brendan McDaniels said the school is retiring Bill Kenville's jersey at the Bowling Green game. This better be a bad joke or bad reporting.

 

[Bona03]

Sanders is the school's leading scorer and led an NIT Championship team (when the NIT still mattered) so I would add him to the list but I agree Bill, save the retired jerseys for the truly special. Look at Duke, they have 11 retired numbers and none since 2003. That is a school with 4-5 national titles

 

[Bill Russell]

Sanders is the school's leading scorer and led an NIT Championship team (when the NIT still mattered) so I would add him to the list but I agree Bill, save the retired jerseys for the truly special. Look at Duke, they have 11 retired numbers and none since 2003. That is a school with 4-5 national titles

I’d make retired numbers almost unattainable. Isn’t that the point? A player should be an All-American, advance deep into the NCAAs, and be a 1st round draft pick (or have a long career in the NBA). Guys like Nicholson, Sam Stith, Sanders, etc. are exceptional players, but not program-defining or nationally noteworthy by themselves. Some honor below retired numbers, yet above HOF would be appropriate for that group.