Bonnies @ Saint Louis (Sat. 03/07/2020 @ 8:00pm)

BonaCommenter

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2019
221
296
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St. Bonaventure
Not getting analytical here, but all these absolute slaughterings (or the La Salle no-show) have been on the road, except for Davidson. They've played with a much better mentality at home/neutral sites with a pro-Bona crowd. I would expect that we would have more fans on Thursday and even potentially Friday against SLU (they may wait to travel east until potentially playing Dayton Saturday). Hopefully that helps them feel more confident and willing to attack...
 
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Citizen X

Active member
Dec 29, 2019
93
121
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St. Bonaventure
Having connectivity issues, I posted this previously then deleted it when I thought I might have double-posted it. I'm re-posting here.

I know we're all pissed off by the poor showing, but I got the feeling I was on the banned wagon reading some of the above comments. We are a fucking junior college team, just remember that. Next year will be much different, and if you don't believe it just look at the improvement from last year to this year by the core players at Dayton, Richmond, SLU, Duquesne, and even Rhody. The A10 pegged Bona for #5 in the preseason guesstimate and these are people who have the expertise and resources to know what they're looking at. The Bonnies came in pretty much as forecast by them and by Kenpom's preseason projection. For a complete list of how everyone finished on the kenpom scale (1st entry in parentheses) vs. where he had them in the preseason (2nd entry), read on:
1. Dayton (4/55)
2. Richmond (46/95)
3. Rhody (66/82)
4. SLU (59/142)
5. Bona (125/127)
6. Dukes (94/110)
7. Davidson (68/60)
8. VCU (73/23)
9. UMass (166/240)
10. LaSalle (180/219)
11. GW (230/212)
12. George Mason (173/155)
13. Fordham (257/193)
14. SJU (258/222)
 

Lewis Leonard

Member
Jan 18, 2020
50
27
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St. Bonaventure
If these teams face off again on Friday, Shoon better eat his wheaties. He was invisible out there last night.

Also, hacking French needs to be implemented. Force Ford to take him off the floor.

In a win or go home scenario, I think I rather have Bobby out there over Winston. I can’t pinpoint why, it’s just a gut feeling. I could see Winston losing us a game with his reckless driving and shot selection (almost happened @Duquesne). Bobby seems like a safer option. He can hit a timely 3 or get a key put back. Just needs to stay in bounds.
 

Bonafanatic

Active member
Dec 29, 2019
98
148
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St. Bonaventure
Biggest issue is we got no one who seems willing to post up and take a three, even with a little pressure. We shot 18 threes to their 23 even though we shot for nearly 40 percent!

I can’t even count all the times a guard would be open, but instead of taking the shot, would pump fake, drive to the hoop and be immediately smacked down by French and Bell.

Just plain dumb.
 
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Community Bank 3Pt Tee

Active member
Dec 29, 2019
103
207
Team
St. Bonaventure
We'll definitely improve. I'm not trying to say we wont. But 4 other teams in the top 8 return virtually everyone, same as us. 3 others return many key guys as well. Same belief of improvement should apply to them.

Like I said, I try to remain objective and positive. I'm not beating up any individuals, and I don't think my takes above are too harsh or reactive. Maybe others will disagree with that, and and that's fine. There's a few main concerns I have that have lingered long enough where I don't feel comfortable leaning on youth as a reason for, anymore.

  • Toughness is an abstract attribute that I worry cannot be as easily improved upon as something concrete, such as free throws
  • We have not seen the in season improvement that would leave me encouraged, like say- a UMass, has experienced. UMass to me is undoubtedly a better team than when we faced them- is the same true of us? I'm not so sure- I can't help but think we plateaued a bit.
  • Improvement aside, I still believe we're missing something, particularly in the way of explosiveness on the offensive end. I dont think it's unreasonable for me to say that I'm apprehensive that such a scorer will emerge from the current roster by next year. I think are 2 leading candidates are frosh, who are 2 years away. If we dont have someone new in the fold to be that person next year, then I see a lot of our woes this year following us into next.
  • That brings up my next concern- I would consider it a minor failure- not major, but minor- for a team with a core of 3 freshmen starters to not be developed into an NCAA quality team by their junior year. I'm not saying we wont be that by next year, when that core from last year are juniors. I'm a lot less confident about it than I was earlier in the year, though.
  • I fully realize that my last point is as much a product of my own expectations- so part of my frustration is coming to grips with the fact that maybe I set them too high. That's my own problem, but if I cant at least vent it here, then where?
I don't think these are banned wagon level grievances.
 

LesterGreen

Member
Jan 8, 2020
13
45
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St. Bonaventure
One of the reasons our guys seem to plateau is the ludicrous workloads with which they are saddled year after year. It has especially affected Lofton. This is Schmidt's tragic flaw, unfortunately. He just runs these guys into the ground. From Adegboye to Kloof to Posley to Adams to Mobley to Lofton, our guards are typically shells of themselves in March. That'll happen when you literally don't have a backup at the position on your entire roster.
 

TullyBonnie11

Member
Dec 29, 2019
32
93
Team
St. Bonaventure
One of the reasons our guys seem to plateau is the ludicrous workloads with which they are saddled year after year. It has especially affected Lofton. This is Schmidt's tragic flaw, unfortunately. He just runs these guys into the ground. From Adegboye to Kloof to Posley to Adams to Mobley to Lofton, our guards are typically shells of themselves in March. That'll happen when you literally don't have a backup at the position on your entire roster.
Lester, where did you learn to be so articulate in such a short amount of time? I think the answer lies with a certain former star of the San Francisco Dons...
 

res

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2019
126
296
Team
St. Bonaventure
That's always the danger with a burner account.
 

Jive36

Active member
Nov 20, 2019
93
166
Team
St. Bonaventure
We have a bunch of room to get better with the current roster. At the risk of stealing too much from my offseason homework post that will be formulated in the next 10-14 days.

1. Lofton improves his shot - specifically off the dribble - then teams have to hedge and fight over the screen leaving OO or Winston open on the roll or pop. Only 11 of his 37 threes this year aren't of the catch and shoot variety. For comparison Adams had double the 3pt makes and 30 off the dribble 3s his sophomore year. Edit: I should add that Lofton is never going to be the shoot first guy Adams was but forcing teams to respect he might pull up off the ball screen really changes the geometry on the floor.

2. OO missed most the offseason and may have to again this offseason (the knee brace bothers me). But if he gets fully healthy and stays 80-90% healthy all next year our ceiling just shot through the roof. (No MJ the roof is not always the ceiling)

3. Winston has shown sparks of the talent he can be. I think the staff starts to fully unlock him with a full offseason.

4. Adaway - I think he is going to provide a boost for us next year. I'm not sure I can remember a transfer as engaged on the bench during games. Edit2: Stockard might have been but I noticed Adaway at every game cheering on the team or with some words on the bench to a guy that just came off. From no first person knowledge it feels like he is making the most of the sit out year.
 
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Jive36

Active member
Nov 20, 2019
93
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St. Bonaventure
For those of you that are worried about the toughness of the team, I agree partially we need to find our inner bad mf'er

1583756573737.png

I think at least one of English/Vasquez/Welch/Winston look in the mirror and find that edge before next year. Welch already plays like a bad mother in some games, Vasquez has the confidence, Winston has the skill to back it up, and English well I just cant get the Posley comp out of my head.

All these guys are young dudes. I know Posley and Mobley and Jon Hall all walked through the door with a toughness but they were all upper class men by that point. I think some of the toughness comes with age and experience.

I am absolutely not worried about the future of this group based on getting pushed around by SLU (the only team in 12 weeks to hang with #3 in the nation Dayton). Nor am I worried about the 2 blowouts without OO, and don't get me started on Davidson being our Achilles heel.

So now we are talking about the LaSalle game and an overtime game vs a much improved Duq team. I circle back to what people are tired of hearing as an "excuse" but I call it a fact of the situation these are young dudes. They are going to drop games sometimes, they will learn from those games and improve.
 
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brownindians85

Active member
Nov 13, 2019
105
216
All these blowout losses are seriously worrisome. Makes me question the character/makeup of this team.
This is one of Schmidt’s softest teams.
I'm not sure why I'm going down this road but here goes..

There's a difference between character and mental soft/toughness you're talking about and actual physical strength. There was only one game this season that I thought the fight went out of the team and that was against Davidson. I think they were overwhelmed, were getting their asses handed to them, and just got exasperated. Every other game, even this most recent against SLU, it's not like they quit. They just got beat. Sometimes badly.

I wish the team was "tougher" too. Physically. But you can't for a second tell me this team doesn't want to win. I'm so fucking sick of hearing that. Oh they didn't want it enough/the other team wanted it more. Bullshit. Watch the damn games. I wish Shoon was built like Amadi. He isn't. I wish our guys fouled harder and finished and-1's. They don't. It's OK to wish they were physically tougher, but you can't do anything about that other than wait for them to get older, bigger, stronger.

There's a lot that needs addressing in the offseason, but will/desire to win isn't one of them. That's there. The physical game itself needs to catch up. Size, strength, and playing at A10 level. It's what we had this year. Someone else mentioned the loss of Court and LDG was severely underestimated by the fan base. Stockard was by far the best all-around player on the team in 2019, and maybe in 2018 as well. He and LDG made everyone on that team last season better and hid some flaws.
 

simons22

New member
Jan 6, 2020
16
19
Team
St. Bonaventure
I'm not sure why I'm going down this road but here goes..

There's a difference between character and mental soft/toughness you're talking about and actual physical strength. There was only one game this season that I thought the fight went out of the team and that was against Davidson. I think they were overwhelmed, were getting their asses handed to them, and just got exasperated. Every other game, even this most recent against SLU, it's not like they quit. They just got beat. Sometimes badly.

I wish the team was "tougher" too. Physically. But you can't for a second tell me this team doesn't want to win. I'm so fucking sick of hearing that. Oh they didn't want it enough/the other team wanted it more. Bullshit. Watch the damn games. I wish Shoon was built like Amadi. He isn't. I wish our guys fouled harder and finished and-1's. They don't. It's OK to wish they were physically tougher, but you can't do anything about that other than wait for them to get older, bigger, stronger.

There's a lot that needs addressing in the offseason, but will/desire to win isn't one of them. That's there. The physical game itself needs to catch up. Size, strength, and playing at A10 level. It's what we had this year. Someone else mentioned the loss of Court and LDG was severely underestimated by the fan base. Stockard was by far the best all-around player on the team in 2019, and maybe in 2018 as well. He and LDG made everyone on that team last season better and hid some flaws.
Really liked this post after reading all the crap on the other site. You're right that these guys do really want to win, and anyone who questions their desire has most likely been dealing with a Neurosyphilis for a prolonged period of time - perhaps there was an outbreak on Bonaventure's campus in the late 60's which would explain A LOT.

One thing that has really irked me this entire season is that it feels like in certain games when we're struggling to find scoring Lofton and English are reluctant to shoot the three. This is particularly evident when Dom's shot isn't falling. Even against SLU English passed on some looks that seemed pretty decent. I know I'm not on the court and struggle at times to assess the length of some of these defenders, but English is not playing like a guy who averages 40% from three, which is one of the reasons I'm reluctant to call him the next Posley. English drives like Posley, but he needs to have that killer instinct from behind the arc before I start making those comparisons. I don't want our offense to devolve into chucking it up, but it often feels like there is a great deal of indecision amongst our younger players regarding whether to drive or shoot. Hoping this problem will sort itself out in the offseason.
 

Citizen X

Active member
Dec 29, 2019
93
121
Team
St. Bonaventure
We'll have all summer and possibly the benefit of a successful rematch vs. SLU to discuss, but this was not the first time Osun faced off against SLU. The two times in 2019 he did quite well, but his minutes were reduced due to foul trouble. He's likely to have a radically better performance the next time he plays those blasted Billikens.